Jul 31 2007
Response to Richard: Advice on Learning
(see comment from Richard on article ¡ÈDay 20¡É)
Hey Richard,
Thanks for the comment! I’m assuming since you’re posting all this, you’d like some advice on how to tackle this language barrier. If not, well, I’ve been meaning to write a article on this for awhile, so I’m going to dispense some advice anyway.
First of all, learning Japanese is a job. But then again, learning any language is a job. Attitude is key. Let’s look at the English-learning Japanese for example. When you were here in Japan, did you notice all the English conversation schools like Nova, Aeon, Geos, etc? And did you also notice that despite six years of mandatory English education, plus these schools, plus English lessons on NHK (Japan’s public broadcasting), plus access to shelves and shelves of material in major bookstores, that with all this available to them very few Japanese actually learn English to a usable level? I believe this primarily has to do with attitude. Many Japanese look at English as a weekend hobby and think if they study it for a few hours a week that eventually they’re going to get the hang of it. They consider English to be just another subject in school and unfortunately most people here treat learning it that way. I’m not sure where you’re from, Richard, but back in America we have maybe half a shelf dedicated to Japanese at major bookstores, with a collective total of maaaaybe 50 books. We don’t have bilingual t.v., and we don’t have Japanese conversation school. Granted that not many Americans learn Japanese (or any foreign language for that matter) but I think the ones that usually apply themselves to Japanese do so because they want to, not because they have to. A fundamental difference in attitude. (By they way, did you know that a person who can speak three languages is called trilingual and person who can speak two languages, bilingual? And those that speak only one language? American.)
Second language learning requires constant diligence. Especially for a tough lingual pair like English and Japanese, one has to focus everyday even if it’s just a little bit. Consistency is key (just like attitude). Just because you live in Japan doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll magically acquire Japanese by osmosis. I’ve actually met westerners that have live in Japan for 4+ years who’s Japanese is limited to ordering beer, just because they didn’t want to learn anything else. There is enough English here where you’re not going to be forced to ¡Èpick up¡É Japanese. You will,however, have access to many more learning materials than you did in the states and being here will give you more opportunities to practice, should you choose to take them.
Richard, I’m not sure what exactly it is you want to learn. You mentioned you want to acquire the ability to communicate, which might indicate you only want to learn conversation, but you also said you’re planning on moving here. If that’s the case, I would seriously suggest that you also learn how to read and write as well. Learning conversational Japanese is great and all, but unfortunately speaking and written literacy usually go hand-in-hand, especially with learning materials. I would suggest, unless you want to learn Japanese on only the most casual level (then you really shouldn’t be diving into an asian language) that you acquire both oral and written abilities.
Ok, now that we have that little intro and disclaimer out of the way, I’ll proceed with the advice dump.
The first thing you need to do is to keep your motivation up. If you have no motivation to learn, there’ll be no learning, right? A lot of people get fired up when they start learning Japanese and they dive right in, trying to get as many kanji or phrases under their belt in the shortest amount of time. Trust me, this usually leads to burn out real quick. Do things in small chunks. First learn hiragana, then focus this week on phrases you can use at the bus stop, do a few pages in your workbook today, etc. The point is to break it up and do something every day, even if it’s small. You’re not going to learn anything if you just spend a few hours studying on Saturdays.
Set clear goals for what you want to get done. You mentioned you have a stupidly busy life. You’re going to need to get the motivation to make time in your stupidly busy life. I know this doesn’t really relate to Japanese specifically (more like productivity/goal-setting) but it’s just as important. Remember how to study like a student. Realize that normal people’s concentration starts to flag after the first hour or two of studying. Take breaks. Anywho, enough of that. If you want to read more about productivity/goal-setting type stuff, just search ¡Èproductivity blogs¡É in google and you’ll be swimmin’ in stuff.
Another thing to help motivation is to get involved. I took classes at university to learn Japanese and that easily kept me on track. I had friends to study together with and teachers that were pretty fired up to teach us. For those not taking classes though, I would recommend becoming involved online. There are several websites dedicated to language learning that have active forum communities. By getting involved, you not only keep yourself on track, but you learn new study techniques, can participate in study challenges, etc. Remember, this is all for the sake of keeping your fire burning. If your fire goes out, no more learning. One of my favorite websites for this is here.
As long as we’re talking about resources on the internet, check out internet radio/podcasts in Japanese. If you have iTunes, you can download podcasts in Japanese. Just go down to the bottom of the iStore page and change the region to Japanese. They have a lot of learning English podcasts where they give you the Japanese phrase too, effectively making it a good tool to learn Japanese with. If you can get the hang of that, move up to things like news broadcasts, etc. You can also download t.v. shows on the internet if that’s your thing. Try watching them first with subtitles, then without. Repeat what they characters say and practice your pronunciation. If you download the episode and watch on your computer, you can pause it and go over segments as many times as you want.
Richard, you mentioned that your wife is Japanese. I don’t want to make any presumptions about your relationship, but I’m guessing that when you guys go out to eat in Japan, she’s the one ordering at restaurants and generally speaking for the both of you when conversing with Japanese people, right? These are actually good times for you to practice. Try ordering food, try asking for directions (even when you don’t need them), try complimenting someone on their taste in t-shirts, whatever. The point is to get the words out of your mouth and see if you can catch them when they come ’round back at you.
On the other side of the coin, trying talking to your wife in Japanese. This may or may not work, depending on your relationship. For some people, it feels awkward to switch to Japanese with someone they’ve always talked together in English. Usually it feels strange because English is easier for both of you. Language and communication usually take the path of least resistance. But if she’s cool with it, try to get her to sit down and have a short 10-15 minute conversation with you. If this is all too strange for you guys, see if she has any friends that would be willing to exchange language practice for a cup of coffee or a meal.
Alcohol. Alcohol is great, isn’t it? It’s actually a very useful tool for language learning. A lot of people hit a stage where they know the words and they know what they want to say, but they can’t quite get the words out of their mouth. They choke on the words, feel embarrassed, and then often unconsciously force themselves to remain quiet in order to avoid more embarrassment from choking even more. Alcohol keeps you from feeling embarrassed (uninhibited, right?) and allows you to keep talking. Heck, it doesn’t matter if it’s bad Japanese. It just matters that you’re getting the words out of your mouth and your mouth is getting used to speaking Japanese. So, when you do manage to finally snag a conversation partner, try buying ‘em a beer or a glass of wine instead of coffee.
A lot of people think that listening and speaking go hand-in-hand. This is true on a few levels, but just because people can listen and understand a certain language does not necessarily mean they can speak it too. Don’t forget to focus specifically on listening and specifically on speaking and avoid always lumping them together.
Read. Doesn’t matter if it’s a children’s book, a magazine, the newspaper, an article on the internet, just read in Japanese. This is the hands-down best way to improve your vocabulary. Pull out that book, keep that dictionary next to you, and sit down your butt down.
Buy an electronic dictionary as soon as you settle down in Japan. Best tool ever.
I don’t know your level, Richard, so I don’t know if I’d recommend this now, but check out the Japanese Language Proficiency Test (JLPT). It’s held once a year and basically is just the Japanese equivalent to the English TOEFL or TOIEC standardized tests. It tests your reading ability, grammar, listening ability and kanji. You can find study materials in the bigger Japanese book stores. I’ll be going for Level 1 again this winter.
That’s about it. This is the basic advice post that I’ve been meaning to write for awhile. I hope you enjoyed it and feel free to leave comments about your own thoughts and experiences.
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Good language advice, and your blog in general is pretty cool. I spent two years in Japan and am guilty of being lazy with the language. Everything you say is true about how you don’t learn it by osmosis - you REALLY have to try hard, every day. Also the part about alcohol is hilarious and true…”at least I *think* my Japanese was better while drunk!” A couple of other things: most reasonably bilingual people will try to speak English with you and will be hesitant to correct your Japanese errors unless you ask them many times. Then there are the ones who will teach you silly old samurai words because it would be cute to hear a gaijin say them - not realizing that you’ll be unknowingly using them for weeks in casual conversation before learning otherwise! Lastly, if you have a question about a small nuance, it is usually better to ask a bilingual foreigner than a Japanese person (this is true for learning any language, since someone who had to learn it as an adult knows all the pitfalls)
I’m studying up for my 3-kyuu test later this year and hope to make it back to Japan sometime in 2008.
Also, I 100% understand what you mean in your last post with feeling resentment to other foreigners for threatening your uniqueness. It’s almost like we’re a bunch of bitchy fashion models eyeing each other
But the truth behind the initial resentful eye contact is that on average, Americans I met over there are cooler than the ones back home. They’re far more likely to be interesting and enlightened than a cross-section of the American public. Boring/stupid/ignorant people aren’t as likely to run off overseas.
Your repeated use of the word “lady friend” is interesting; I was always hesitant to say “girlfriend” as well (if that’s why you do it). Once I saw a white guy in Shibuya wearing a shirt that said “Define ‘girlfriend’”…ha!
Keep up the great blog.
Thank you very much for your excellent advice on learning the language! I was amazed and encouraged by what you said, and I understand much better now what it is that I need to ACTUALLY DO to get this language in my head and part of my everyday life.
I’m sorry for my delay in reply, right after I wrote my comment I had to get on a plane for hopefully my last American business trip before I move to Japan.
So many of the things you said rang true. I really liked your point about how drinking loosens up the tongue in a foreign language. My wife¡Çs brother and I always have the best conversations after we have downed goodly amounts of Japanese and Scottish whiskey. His English and my Japanese both get way better because I think we are not so worried about making mistakes.
Based on your advice, I have decided to make learning Japanese my part time job. The payoff will take some time, but I am sure it will be worth it in the long run.
Now I need to get down to specifics, what materials do I study, and how do I measure my progress? If you have time, I would like your advice based on the resources that I have found, what would be the best way to focus my time on the most productive way to learn. Here is a list of what I have now, and what I think is the order in which I should study them. My goal is to get up to speed quickly in basic conversation, and have a good plan to reach the top levels of Japanese Language mastery. Feel free to tell me what you think is a waste of time or what you think is a better way to go.
1.) Japanese Wife.
She speaks native Japanese, but her English is perfect (she was an English teacher in Japan) so we always speak English. I¡Çm having a tough time making my best friend my teacher too. We have lots of things to talk about, Japanese on my side will slow things down a lot. Maybe I need to change my attitude on that.
2.) Japan Foundation ¡ÈYan and the Japanese People¡É video series.
This is my favorite multimedia Japanese learning set I have found in my years of searching. The bad part is that it is from 1983. The good part is that the Japanese is in full speed in realistic situations and has a great printed workbook. It was on NHK in Japan back in the day, my wife remembers seeing the skits on TV when she was a kid. The formula is similar to how my Japanese brother in law studies English on NHK. A link to it is here:
http://www.jpf.go.jp/e/urawa/e_j_rsorcs/e_jrs_02_syousai/e_yan_video.html
I think a new version may be in the works, but I have not been able to find one yet.
3.) Pimsleur Audio
This is always near the top of the charts in the best way to learn, but I usually get lost with this pretty quickly. It is all audio, no study book at all. That is their selling point. Maybe I need more visual queues, or maybe I just need to work harder.
4.) Rosetta Stone
I have all of the Japanese modules for this cross platform Mac / Windows language learning course. It seemed a bit dry to me, but I have heard many great reviews. It is expensive, so it must be good, Right
Of course I may just need to apply myself better.
You also asked if I want to read and write. That is definitely my goal. I think the JLPT is the best way for me to measure my progress, I want whatever I study to lead me to that goal.
Thanks again for your help. I really want you to get your job in Japan. You would be a great neighbor for a gaijin like me to have, and you will be great for Japan too. Your blog is great, and is helping lots of people follow their dream of making the leap to Japan!
Vic:
Thanks for the added advice! Yes, I agree, the alcohol trick only good up to a point. After that, people don’t understand what language you’re speaking and there’s a very good chance you’re not going to remember any of it the next day anyways.
I also agree with what you said about bilingual people not really correcting your errors. I can speak reasonably fluent Japanese, so there have been times when I’m that said ¡Èbilingual person,¡É but then other times my friends who are better speakers than I am correct my Japanese. So…I think I’ve been on both sides of the fence. It’s definitely a tough issue. A lot of people don’t even want their Japanese corrected, perhaps they feel it’s condescending, so the easiest thing to do is usually just to shut up and not do anything. And then even when they do want you to correct your Japanese, sometimes you get wrapped up in a conversation and just forget. Usually if I want to get my Japanese corrected, I have to figure out what part that I think is wrong and then ask them directly, ¡ÈYou know, I just said ¡Èx,¡É but maybe it would have been more natural/better if I said ¡Èy¡É here?¡É Then the person you’re speaking with will usually somewhat-grudgingly acknowledge your error and tell you what you should have said. If there is a easy, effective way to get someone to correct your errors, I have yet to find it.
It’s sad that all us foreigners are bitchy fashion models, huh?
Yes, I do use the ¡Èladyfriend¡É here to mean girlfriend. I don’t want the focus of the blog to change to something like relationships or dating in Japan (there are enough of those kind of blogs), so I try to leave her out of the spotlight as much as possible. However, she’s been invaluable in my job hunting and I’m always spending time with her, so I can’t really leave her out of the story completely. I just think ¡Èladyfriend¡É sounds more classy than ¡Ègirlfriend,¡É but in my case it’s really the same thing.
Richard:
Ok, down to brass tacks. I’m glad that you’ve decided to take on learning Japanese as a part-time job. Let’s take this bit-by-bit.
Your wife…hmm..that’s a tough call. You know, I really think it depends on your relationship. If you guys are cool with it, that’s great. If not, oh well. But I wouldn’t recommend trying to push her into doing it. Again, try to see if you can network through her. I’m sure she probably has some Japanese friends where you’re at (and will probably make friends pretty quickly where you’ll be going) so see if you can’t find a language partner buddy through her. Especially in Japan, it will be extremely easy to find someone who will trade English practice for Japanese practice (you know, if the dinner idea doesn’t work out).
The tapes and all that look good. Again, I was a student and learned through classes so I never really used tapes. I tried a little bit of the Pimsleur/Rosetta Stone but they still strike me as a hobbyist’s way to learn Japanese. Kind of like those books, ¡ÈLearn Japanese in just 5 minutes a day while brushing your teeth!¡É But, to be honest, I’ve never used the tapes extensively so I really don’t know. If they work for you, that’s great. But the important thing is what works for you. Doesn’t matter if the tapes are top sellers, you know? Personally, I would get a lot more benefit conversing with a live person. Again, the key is to do something everyday or every other day.
I think the JLPT is a good way to gauge your progress…to a point. I really don’t think there’s any good reason to study past level two. Level one stuff is all really random Japanese that you’d never see except for academic journals and so forth. The only reason I’m going for level one is because businesses look for it when you’re approaching job hunting like I am. But honestly, beyond level two is just overkill in my humble opinion. Therefore, I think you would be best off studying for the JLPT until you pass level two, then by that time you should be ready to start on newspapers and magazines. This is a great site for basic to intermediate Japanese grammar - http://www.guidetojapanese.org/
Thank you for the encouragement on my job hunt! Give me a heads up when you’re settled in Japan and we’ll get a drink.
Thank you very much for the advice, I think I now have a good handle on what I need to do to get my language skills in order.
I’ll be going to Japan for 2 weeks at the end of this month to get a re-entry permit for my shiny new spouse visa, as well as getting a hanko (signature stamp) so I can set up a Japanese bank account. I’ll also be getting my Gaijin registration done, and will look around for an apartment. My goal is to buy a house there, but you have to have all your paperwork in order to even apply for a mortgage. My credit is very good in America, but it means almost nothing there as far as mortgages go unless you have all of the above mentioned paperwork in order. Mortgage rates are only 2.7 percent in Japan now, almost unbelievable. Even questionable credit is 4 percent, quite a bit better than the US, sitting at about 8 percent and rising today.
I still have to move my stuff there, mostly my books and computer stuff, I’ll come back after this trip and get all that done. I have a couple of parakeets I’m bringing too, lots of drama and paperwork to get that done with this bird flu thing happening.
I’m doing my initial job search from here, and want to have some interviews set up for my 2nd week there after all my paperwork stuff is done. I am going to call some headhunters from here tomorrow and send them my resume. I have seen quite a few listings in the tech field that require only basic or even no Japanese if you have a strong technical background. I’m hoping to get something like that at first.
Thanks for doing this blog, it is very encouraging to people like me that are moving there or are thinking of going. There is nothing as valuable as a report from the people on the front lines that are actually there doing it!
I’ll let you know when I am settled, many rounds of drinks on me